Tag: centripetal force

Gravity: The Baron Munchausen of Forces

 BaronMunch

The Missing force in gravity

Two bodies that are interacting require “something” to push against. For example, in a classic tug-o-war there are two teams pulling against each other using a rope. However, for it to work, they must push against the ground not air or space in order to pull. The classic F=ma equation usually cited does not give the fulcrum from which each body is pushing against. They can’t push against air or space while pulling at the rope. Hence, there is no “equal and opposite” reaction since there is nothing to react against. There is no push to the pull.

Essentially we have an equation that has the earmarks of Baron Munchausen

Tug-O-War2

Centripetal force is not gravity.  This is a common misconception.  Gravity is an independent force due to the mass of the object.  People usually link things together which are not related. For example, angular momentum gives rise to the centripetal and centrifugal forces. The centripetal force is “pulling” at the the centrifugal force and the centrifugal force is “pulling” against the centripetal force and gravity at a rate of ω²r, where ω is the angular speed (=linear speed/r) but it does not cause gravity.

In other words, they have to subtract the emergent centripetal and centrifugal forces from the force of gravity to get the resultant force.  For example, a 72kg person will exert 2.36N of centrifugal force at the equator while gravity exerts (pulls) 705N of force giving a resultant force of 702.64N. But for gravity to pull it must push against something at that’s what’s missing. The earth must be fixed in space to pull.

The only thing that gravity can push against is space and space must have zero mass. For space would need sufficient mass to resist the motion of any and all celestial bodies (galaxies, suns, planets, etc). Therefore, space would no longer be space but mass. So the conundrum for an astrophysicist is the necessity of space and the simultaneous necessity for space to have mass.  They are mutually exclusive.

For this reason, gravity violates Newton’s 3rd law.

Spacetime, curvature and Relativity nonsense

Since gravity is a function of mass, any supposed curvature of space is the result of the mass of the object not the other way around.  Also, curvature of space around an object is impossible. This would require the supposed “fabric” of space is pulled inward towards the object. What exactly is it pulling on? Space by it’s very definition is empty.  How can a force pull on emptiness? Even if gravity was granted such magical powers, it would then, by necessity, require space to have mass and if it has mass then it is not space.  As well, time is an abstraction and a force can’t pull on an abstraction.

Even if we grant gravity the magical powers to pull on emptiness it still needs to push against something to pull on something.  We get into a circular argument where the space around the earth is being pulled on while simultaneously it is resisting the motion of the earth itself. Hence the allusion to Baron Munchausen pulling himself up by his own pigtails.

The Inertial mass required to fix the earth in space would negate space itself. So regardless of which theory of gravity is evoked, it violates Newton’s 3rd law.

Density/Buoyancy and the falsification of Gravity

Density and buoyancy are a function of the differences between the mass of objects. For example, an object more dense than air will drop to the ground due to the displacement of the surrounding air. Air under compression can push against a heavier object since the air is not being displaced. The mass of an object is also distinct from the force of gravity.

Here we get to the crux of the problem? If a 72kg person is standing on the earth’s surface, they should experience a constant acceleration of 9.8 m/s/s. But this acceleration does not stop just because they are standing on the earth’s surface. Their “weight” will only be 72kg (702.64N) for one second. What happens at the 2nd second? Their “weight” would double since in the 1st second it is 702.64N + 702.64N in the 2nd second (the “weight” of a person in free fall is zero). In other words, we should all be compressed piles of mush. All mass should be pulled relentlessly into the centre of the earth. Therefore, since the acceleration due to gravity is not what we observe, it must be shown as having been falsified.

Other celestial observations, like the gravity bending light, are non-sensical since the bending of light would require either space (which is empty and massless) or light to have mass. Neither of these have mass. The motions of celestial bodies (planets, suns, comet, galaxies, etc) are equally non-sensical since they require gravity and since gravity has been shown to be falsified, the motions of the lights in the sky are due to other phenomenon.

And finally, outer space, planets, comets, etc are all constructs of the theory of gravity. Without gravity they fall apart.  Welcome to the flat earth.

There is an alternative to gravity that has been elegantly presented by Ken Wheeler: https://archive.org/details/magnetism1small

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A Discrepancy in the use of the Centripetal Force

This is a re-post of an article I wrote in reply to JimSmithInChiapas.  He has been kind enough to respond to some of my ideas on gravity, centrifugal and centripetal force.  Though he does not agree with my assessment of these forces, we continue to communicate in a respectful manner.  Below is a recent reply to a comment he had on centripetal forces.  Ultimately, I feel that the centripetal force has been fundamentally misapplied in spinning frames of reference.  It is my contention that a single frame of reference for spinning body requires that for any object to be apart of that frame, it must be attached directly to that spinning body.  This has massive (no pun intended) implications.  You can read my argument below:

Jim…thank you for your reply.  I initially wanted to clarify a slight misrepresentation in your article.  My article is called “Does Gravity Make Sense?” not “does gravity exist?”.  They are different concepts.  I’m questioning how gravity is being represented by mainstream science today not that objects have mass or that they fall from the sky.

In any event, the example that I used provided a single frame of reference with respect to a spinning disk.  I used a disk with a 10m radius that spins at 10 m/s with a person of 72kg on the outer rim.  The person would experience 720N/kg of centrifugal force.  I don’t think that is in question.  I then go onto saying that unless the person holds onto the disk (via an attached handle of some kind), they would be flung from the disk at 720N/kg.  Again, I don’t think that is in question either.  The centripetal force is an inward force that requires the handle and the person to be attached to the disk at all times.

A more illustrative example would be the Olympic hammer throw.  The athlete is holding onto a tether which is attached to heavy weight.  The spinning motion of the athlete creates the centrifugal force which flings the weight outwards.  The strength of the athlete keeps the hammer from leaving a circular orbit via a centripetal force.  The inward force (centripetal) is provided by the athlete which is ‘balance’ by the centrifugal force.  But all the spinning objects in that frame of reference are and must be attached together. 

There is no empirical evidence of a centripetal force acting on a body that is not attached to the spinning body.  How could it?

There are no real world examples of a free floating object being acted on by a centripetal force.  You can mathematically present a centripetal force acting on an object but it is missing the real world necessity of being attached to or apart of the spinning object.  The centripetal force is a function of a spinning object; it is not a separate force that can be applied to an object outside that frame of reference.  To be part of that frame of reference, an object would, by necessity, need to be attached to the spinning object. 

For example, the person in the disk example above, is not part of the frame of reference unless they hold onto the disk with sufficient force.  They are literally removed from the frame via the centrifugal force.

Therefore, I would conclude that any object that is rotating around the earth must, by necessity, be attached to the earth to be part of that frame of reference for any object not attached is subject to the centrifugal force and will be removed from the frame. 

If we take a real world example of a person of 72kg standing on the surface of the earth and if they are standing at the equator and if the earth is spinning at 1000miles/hr then they are subject to a centrifugal force of 2.2N/kg.  If gravity is acting on the person with 9.8N/kg then a total force of 7.6N/kg is present.  The centripetal force is not part of the frame of reference for that person as shown above.

As the mass of the object increases, the centrifugal force increases.  Therefore, an object greater than ~330kg should become “weightless” on the surface of the earth.  This is obviously not happening nor are people 22% lighter at the equator than they are at the north pole.  Additionally, the person would not feel heavier if they grabbed hold of something attached to the earth. 

What I’m showing is that there is a discrepancy between real world situations and the mathematical examples presented by modern science.  At this juncture I can only conclude that the centripetal force is being improperly applied across multiple spinning  frames of reference to account for the discrepancy and if that is the case then we cannot be in a spinning frame of reference (as shown above).

The Impossible Flight of the ISS

I was looking at some additional sites from NASA that try to explain the nature of gravity at certain altitudes.  https://www.grc.nasa.gov/www/K-12/airplane/wteq.html

The final sentence of the explanation is “…But the high orbital speed, tangent to the surface of the earth, causes the fall towards the surface to be exactly matched by the curvature of the earth away from the shuttle. In essence, the shuttle is constantly falling all around the earth.”

As mentioned in my previous posts, the centripetal force only makes sense for something that is tethered to the spinning body  (If you feel that the centripetal force *does* have special powers, please provide a clear empirical example that can be tested). Neither the space shuttle nor the ISS are tethered to the earth unless we grant the centripetal magical grappling abilities (see hammer throw). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnHUAc20WEU

As well, for the shuttle to be constantly “falling” but not actually falling downwards, a constant acceleration would need to be applied (ie. rockets) plus a continual adjustment of direction or the shuttle would fly off into space (see what happens when the hammer is released).  Again, for apparent “weightlessness” in space, it would require objects to be falling at a rate of 9.8N/kg (or m/s/s) which would mean a constant counter-force of equal value would need to be applied or they would rapidly fall to earth.  So the “floating” objects and people in space would need to be in a free fall all the time.  This is obviously not the case since the ISS would have crashed to earth a long time ago.  In essence the ISS is just like a airplane at a higher altitude and would require constant thrust to stay in “orbit”.  If you turn off the engines of an airplane at 30,000 feet will it stay in “orbit” because “…the high orbital speed, tangent to the surface of the earth, causes the fall towards the surface to be exactly matched by the curvature of the earth away from the [airplane]? ”  I don’t think any scientist would want to be in that airplane at 30,000 feet.   It should be noted that the standard equation for centrifugal force for any object at the equator great than ~317kg would have a centrifugal force greater than gravity.  Unless the centripetal force is magically grappling those objects, they should all start floating and since objects like elephants weigh ~4000-7000kg, they should all be floating thousands of miles above the earth.

If we grant the ISS a value of 3217N/kg (centrifugal force) due to its orbit around the earth (@ 17,150 miles/h & 4200 miles & ~331,000kg) – what force was initially used to get it to that speed?), then an equivalent (but opposite direction) for it must be present via the centripetal force.  In order for a centripetal force to be present the object must be tethered to the earth.  However, to obtain 3217N/kg, this would require the object to be traveling at a faster rate than the earth’s rate of spin.  So an object that travels faster than the earth’s rate of spin *must* be under its own propulsion and not tethered to the earth.  Since the ISS is traveling at such a high rate of speed and is not tethered to the earth, then it *must* be under its own propulsion and heading.  This is plainly not the case.  If the centripetal and centrifugal forces are equal but opposite directions, then we are left with 9.8N/kg (the force of gravity) on all objects.

In conclusion, if the centripetal force only applies to objects that are tethered to a spinning object (ie. Earth) then objects above the earth’s surface must be constantly under their own propulsion (like an airplane) to stay above the earth’s surface.  In other words, the ISS should be falling out of the sky.

Does Gravity make sense?

If you actually think about how gravity is supposed to work, you might find that there are significant issues with the theory.  I’m just pointing out some factors that might be furiously refuted since without gravity (as it is proposed by the majority of scientists), the universe would be a completely different place.  So I’m moving into a territory that is highly guarded and sanctified.

If we grant that there is a force “pulling” towards the center with a force of 9.8 Newtons/kg at all points on the ‘globe’ simultaneously *and* a centrifugal force that pushes away from the center at such insignificant values, then magical traits would have to be applied to the centripetal force. To put this into perspective, if you are standing on a disk (r=10m) that spins at 10 m/s and a person with a mass of 72kg stands on the edge of this disk, they would feel 720N of outward force (centrifugal). The only way that the centrifugal force can be ‘balanced’ is by having the person hold onto the disk with a greater force than 720N. In other words, the centripetal force. If this person stands close to the center of this disk [cos(89)X10] then then would only have to hold on with 0.2N.

http://www.calctool.org/CALC/phys/newtonian/centrifugal

So what is the difference between gravity and centripetal force? Of course centripetal force is valid if the object is attached to the center of a spinning globe by a rope or some kind of real tensor (like a tree rooted in the ground). However, centripetal force can not be applied to an object that is not tethered to the center of a spinning globe unless you are applying some kind of magical grappling force to it (I hope not). So for objects like people or cars or dogs, you can only apply gravity and the centrifugal force (and no the dog is not tied to a tree by a leash). So we are left with a tiny centrifugal force and gravity.

A 72kg person at the equator will have 705N of force due to gravity on them at all times (9.8 N/kg * 72kg). The centrifugal force at the equator is only 2.4N or an effective force of 702.6N. At the 89th parallel it is effectively null. So the centripetal and centrifugal forces are inconsequential to our experience on this ‘globe’.

What we are now dealing with is the 702.6N-705N of force that is pulling down on the average human. So 9.8N of force is being applied to every atom (and supposedly a lot of empty space) in that body so that the person in question ‘weighs’ 72kg. However, the force of gravity on an object reduces at the square of the distance from the source. So the hydrogen atoms at the top of my head weigh less than the hydrogen atoms in my feet – unless I’m lying down or standing on my head.

https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Inverse-square_law

To get a real measurement of gravity we need to get the source value of gravity on Earth at its core. As far as I can tell, there is no clear answer as to how gravity functions below the surface. Some theorize that it decrease as you leave the surface and head towards the core. But how can that be? This means that the surface of the Earth is the center point of mass. So how can we get the actual source value for gravity? Without that, no one can give a real answer as to what the value for gravity on the earth’s surface is. The only answer I have is to reverse the formula when heading towards the core of the earth. At 4000 miles from the earth’s core gravity is 9.8 N/kg. The surface area is A = 4πr^2 @ 4000 miles = 200960000. So the energy or intensity decreases (divided by 4) as the distance r is doubled (or increases and inverted going in the other direction). At 2000 miles then the intensity of gravity would be 9.8 N/kg * 4 = 39.2 N/kg. At 1000 miles it would be 156.8 N/kg. 500 miles would be 624 N/kg; 250 miles 2496 N/kg…etc..etc.

Therefore, 8000 miles from the core of the earth would be 2.45 N/kg which makes the idea of weightlessness at 200 miles above the surface a little suspect. I don’t see how an object like the ISS (370,131kg) is able to ‘float’ at a orbit of only 4200 miles from the earth’s core. It would still be have an effective ‘weight’ very similar to what it would have on the earth’s surface (about 2.5% less ‘weight’). Even at 8000 miles the ISS would ‘weigh’ 92,532kg and would still fall back to earth. Until the object approaches the Moon at approximately 110,000 miles, the gravity of earth will always be greater. However, gravity due to the sun will begin to pull at a greater force than both the moon and the earth at similar distance. With this in mind, I don’t see how space travel is possible without massive amounts of fuel and propulsion.

As an aside, you can’t really have an effective gravity ‘at sea level’ since there can’t be a ‘sea level’ on a globe due to the roundness of the water (which really makes no sense at all). And if we are on a spinning globe, there seems to be a magical grappling effect on every water molecule via the centripetal force that keeps the water in a spherical shape. This then puts the concept of orbiting objects into question since the centripetal force is the only thing keeping it in a circular orbit (or is it pear shaped…I can’t keep up) and the centripetal/centrifugal force is a fraction of the ‘pull’ of gravity, then all objects must fall. The counter argument that since the object is in the ‘vacuum’ of space and a force perpendicular to the pull of gravity (ie. Newton’s first law) which keeps it in orbit is nonsensical since the force of gravity is greater than the centrifugal force and weightlessness can’t be within such proximity to the earth’s surface. A constant pull is being applied perpendicular to all orbiting objects therefore they cannot ‘float’ in ‘space’ without the addition of acceleration (ie rockets or other forms of propulsion). And finally, the question of *how* a planet stays in an orbit without additional forces is beyond me. What is supplying the additional acceleration? The gravitational forces of the sun would have long ago exhausted any capacity to stay in an orbit.